>> chris: i'm chris wallace and this is "fox news sunday." 100 days 'til the mid term. president obama's poll numbers dropped. new doubts about the economic recovery. and a top house democrat faces ethics charges. how will it play out in november? we'll ask two of the country's most colorful political figures. from the right, newt gingrich. from the left, howard dean. a raisial controversy once again ensnares the white house. we'll talk about race and politics with the reverend

jesse jackson. also the bush tack cuts for the wealthy. we will ask our sunday regulars whether letting taxes rise is the right thing to do. and our power play of the week. oprah's chef teaches inner city kids how to take care of themselves. all right now on "fox news sunday." hello again from fox news in washington. with the mid term campaign intensifying we asked two brig thinkers to discuss it. from vermont, howard dean. former governor and chair of the democratic party and here in studio, former house speaker nude gingrich. welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> good to be with you. >> chris: let's start with the case of shirley sherrod who was forced to resign because the obama administration mistakenly thought that she made racial comments. you said this. >> i often disagree with this

administration but firing her after that kind of viciously racist attitude was exactly the right thing to do and the fact that we have to be genuinely color blind. you can't be a black racist any more than you can be a white racist. >> chris: was that viciously irresponsible based on an internet taken out of context? >> i was operating in the context of the secretary of agriculture having summarily fired her and therefore there was no reason to disbelieve the clip and what you see is one more example of the obama administration continuing incompetence. apparently she didn't even get the courtesy of a chance to talk to the secretary of agriculture who i suspect fired her under pressure from the white house and she says she was told they were firing her under presidential hopefuls from the white house. my comments were in the context of a clip validated by the

secretary of agriculture who fired her. when you look at the complete clip and background information and list tonight white farmers say she had actually been very helpful. a fair case can be made that this administration acted with destructive irresponsibility in the way that they fired her. >> chris: but in fairness this is not the first time you have done it. last year when the nomination of sonia sotomayor to the supreme court came up and the comments about the wise latino woman comments were released you tweeted this. white man racist nominee would be forced to withdraw. latino woman racist should also withdrew. you later apologized. why so quick to call people racists? >> what i said about sotomayor i think still stands which was the statements she made were cheerly racist. now, i don't know again in her heart whether she is a racist but you go back and look at her

exact quotes and they were quotes if you put in white male instead of latina you would say that was racist. when you look at what happened the other night i was reacting directly to somebody who had been fired by the white house and the secretary of agriculture based on a clip which had been shown and my point is one that i think you would agree with, which is there is no room in america for a latino or black racist or white racist or native american racist. we are either color blind or we are not color blind. >> chris: let me bring in governor dean. >> let's be blunt about this. i don't think newt gingrich is a racist or you are a racist but fox news had an obligation to find out what was really within the clip. they have been forcing the theme with the black racism

with the black panther cra crad sotomayor. i think the party has to stop appealing. and fox news put that on. >> chris: wait, wait, governor. >> i know the obama people. >> chris: i know facts are inconvenient things but let's try to deal with the facts. the fact is that the obama administration fired or forced shirley sherrod to quit before her name had ever been mentioned on fox news channel. did you know that, sir? >> what i do know is that video came out -- >> chris: did you know that, that her name, she was fired before her name was ever mentioned on the fox news channel? >> what about the video? where did that play. in what about the incomplete video? >> chris: the video had never played on the fox news channel before the white house fired her. it was on andrew brightbart and the government.com.

it wasn't on fox news so maybe you shouldn't be using racist either. >> and it was about to go on glenn beck which is what the administration was afraid of. i think newt is right, she shouldn't have been fired summarily and we ought to stop being afraid of glenn beck. fox news was not blameless during this. i don't know if ever there was a clip of a white farmer saying wait a minute, this woman helped us save the farm, did that ever appear on fox news? >> chris: i don't know because i wasn't reporting the story. i haven't seen the white farmer. i have seen his wife, i haven't seen him anywhere but that may be a mistake on my part. the obama white house fired her, the administration fired her for fear, not the reality but the fear that she was going to appear on glenn beck. is that what barack obama campaigned for when said he was going to change the 24/7 media

cycle? is that the profile in corruption? >> i think that is wrong. as you know, i made a career standing up to that kind of stuff and i think that was a mistake on the part of the obama administration. i'm not going to let the right wing press off the hook on this. >> chris: again, what are the facts here, sir? because the facts are she was not on -- her name was never mentioned on the fox news channel until -- explain to me, why do you think the obama administration. >> and then, chris. >> chris: let me ask my question. why do you think the obama administration fired her before she ever appeared on fox news? >> did fox news play the clip that appeared to be inaccurate? >> after she was fired. >> the question is you played it, you didn't do your job. not you personally but the people who chose to play the clip.

there has been an ongo theme about black racism in america. i think continng to cater to the theme of minority racism and stressing comments like this some of which are taken out of context does not help the country knit itself together. >> if i could just a second, i want to point out, the naacp operating off the sim clip and sacondemned and the naacp condemned the new black panthers as a racist organization. >> i agree. >> i have on occasion sided with the naacp's characterizations. if the obama administration is this afraid of glenn beck do you youngsters they deal with the iran -- how do they deal with the iranians? >> there may better similarities. >> if they are that frightened by an american tv show how do they deal with the real world.

>> chris: let me ask another question because this goes to a bigger issue. you spoke at a progressive conference at which you said this, you elected barack obama, a democratic congress, a democratic senate and now it is time for them to behave like democrats if they want to get reelected. they have foregotten where they have come from. have the president and democrats been too timid? >> the healthcare is my largest concern although that is over and done with and we have to make what we have work. that was a disappointment for me. financial reforms was good. i mean there is definitely some good stuff in there. there was some things that i thought got taken out at the last minute, there was some concern. but i think that the major problem here is that people really wanted change. you have got, for example lobbyists who then went -- i mean people who work for major insurance company, health

insurance companies that ended up as chiefs of staff and people who had a key role in writing the health insurance bill. that is the kind of stuff not suppose to be going on with the new election, the new regime, the new administration, so forth and so on. all we really want i think from the so-called democratic wing of the democratic party is really to stand up for what we believe in. there is a congressman in virginia going to have a tough time getting reelected, tom perielo, very conservative district, replaced a very conservative republican. i think he will get reelected by just a hair? why? because he practices something called conviction politics. he is explaining why he voted for the healthcare bill and why he thinks it will be good. he is not running away from anything. not afraid of glenn beck. not afraid of the right and that is what we have to have some of in this party. >> chris: let's talk about voters' number one concerns and that is jobs and the economy.

speaker gingrich why hasn't the economy bounced back as much as president obama said it would when they pushed through the $862 billion stimulus package and should the bush tax cuts for the wealthy be allowed to expire especially at a time when the economy is so fragile? >> the obama administration announced on friday they expect unemployment for all of next year to be at 9%. americans should be very concerned about this. this is the first time since the great depression we have had this level of unemployment continuing for more than a year. i think it is because you have job killing policies and this is where governor dean and i deeply disagree. i think the stimulus package was fundamentally wrong because trickle down democracy doesn't work. the tax increases buried inside the health bill are going to further depress the economy. i think the tax increases and regulations in the finance reform bill will further depress the economy. i think that the proposal that

they raise taxes next year and the safest thing for america would be to have a provision passed this fall which said no tax increase of any kind in 2011. i mean the fact is everywhere i go and i have been in ten states in the last 14 days, business people saying to me over and over again i will create no new jobs in this environment because the uncertainty is too frightening. >> chris: you are saying extend all the bush cuts. >> i would say no tax increase next year. keep current law as it is, have no tax increase next year and look seriously at something like congressman jordan's five tax cuts because we are stuck at 9.5% unemployment and we are in danger of troping to 2 as much as we are rising to 8. >> chris: why hasn't the economy been stronger and what about the bush tax cuts for the wealthy? >> i think the damage done by the bush administration was

worse than anybody could have imagined and i don't think wall street is doing what they were supposed to be doing even after the shameful performance of the last two years. this they are not allocating capital. you mud be making money by investing venture capital and various job creating things that makes it much harder to recover. i do disagree with newt for two reasons. i think the stimulus has done good and the cbo thinks that is true also. here is the fundamental reason i disagree with newt on the tax issue. the fact of the matter is i think newt and i would agree that the deficit is a huge problem and we cannot continue with deficits in the trillion dollars range, it is just not doable. if you are going to fix the deficit, everybody is going to have to pay something. we can't as democrats go out and talk about entitlements if people who are making $250,000 a year are getting tax cuts. that makes no sense at all. we are all in this together. everybody has to put together

on the table. >> chris: okay. >> i don't believe for a moment, i don't believe for a moment that going back to where bill clinton's tax rates were for people who make over $250,000 is year a going to hurt the economy at all. >> chris: running out of time. a couple of minutes left and i want to get into two more issues. first of all, charlie rangel. should congressman rangel cut a deal to spare the spectacle of a public trial a couple of months before the mid term elections? >> i don't get into that. charlie has run afoul of the ethics committee, he is owed a fair process. if he wants to cut a deal that is his process. this process has to work and i'm proud to say the process is working. he did some things that look like they ought to get him thrown out of congress and if it turns out he did them he is going to get thrown out of congress and that is the way the process is supposed to work. >> chris: there is talk that maybe they still would work out a deal that would be short of

his expulsion from congress. >> congressman rangel has every right as an american citizen to defend himself. if he believes he is innocent he ought to fight. if he believes and his attorneys believe he is guilty it is to his interest and the democratic party interest to cut a deal and then the question of whether or not the deal would be acceptable to the congress. once these kind of things become public it gets harder and harder and fits patterns back to a number of other matters. >> chris: we have about a minute left. you said the other day you have "never been this serious" about running for president in 2012 and you will make a decision after the mid terms february and march of this year. having gone through this with you in 2008 why shouldn't we question whether you are playing the candidate card to get more attention for your views? >> if i don't run you can say see, i told you. if i don't run you can say well, it was real.

that is a decision i will make in february or march and i am not very much concerned about it. >> chris: let me ask, are you playing the cards to get. >> we are seriously looking at and our family is seriously looking at what would it take. i talked to howard about it. this is a hard family decision because it is such a deep commitment and so absorbing. >> let me put in a good word for newt gingrich here. >> chris: uh-oh. >> i'm serious. the biggest difference between this republican congressman and i don't agree with very much newt gingrich wants to do. he has a ton of idea to move the country forward. there are no ideas in the republican party in congress. they are the party of no and they desperately need intellectual leadership and newt can supply intellectual leadership. i hope he does run. >> here is my opponent's clip. >> chris: thank you both so

much for coming in. please come back. always a pleasure. >> up next, the fallout over the firing of shirley sherrod. what does it say about race and politics in america? we'll have the reverend jesse jackson, after this quick break. ♪ [ man ] if it was simply about money, every bank loan would be a guarantee of success. at ge capital, loaning money is the start of the relationship, not the end. i work with polaris every day. at ge capital, we succeed only when they do. whoo! awesome! yes! we've got to get you out of the office more often. ♪ my turn to drive. ♪ (voice 2) how bad is it? (voice 1) traffic's off the chart... (voice 2) they're pinging more targets... (voice 3) isolate... prevent damage...

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>> chris: with race and politics back in the news we have invited jesse jackson to join us from chicago. and reverend jackson, welcome back to "fox news sunday."

>> are we going to discuss the newt gingrich palin ticket or sherrod? >> chris: i think we will cause sherrod. we will have you back to talk about the newt gingrich palin ticket. why do you they made such a judgment about a decision on shirley sherrod. >> the context of this, of course, is that the naa challenged the tea party and they put some members out and then they were targeted to prove that blacks were as racist as whites and there was a level of dialogue and, of course, when the news story broke it frightened the white house, as a matter of fact. they didn't want to be accused of being racist and, of course, they ignored due process and overreacted. >> chris: could a white house be frightened of a clip that was on a conservative website?

>> well, you can be. in this age of social media, i thought when newt tried to equate this with how iran was a false comparison. if you are about to be hit by an avalanche of news media criticism and you feel you have no moral foundation the tendency is to buckle. now, the relatives that the shirley sherrod was a nondue process and the white house is wrong and the white house apologized, gibbs and the president and the secretary. they were wrong? overreacting but that was the basis of the reaction. i think in days to come the idea of character asass nation on the media whether by blogging or but you tube, we should see that as morally wrong and, of course, the political climate. >> chris: reverend jackson as i

pointed out by governor dean the fact is the white house or the administration fired shirley sherrod before her name ever appeared on fox news channel or to my knowledge on any of the other cable news channels. they fired her for fear. i thought this president came in to try to change the culture in washington. >> there is a new social media culture. obama is not just a guy. -- he has a conglomerate of blogs, moving its way towards fox news and sometimes clouds appear before the actual rain actually falls and there is a fear factor. one of being seen as uplifting or one runs from being attacked and this is what they did really, they were wrong. >> chris: how do you explain the naacp praising sherrod's resignation based on a clip that ran as you say on a

conservative website when they had access to her entire 43 minute speech? in fact she made it before an naacp meeting? >> well, again, ben jealous apologized and made an adjustment. you see a calamity of errors here. what i find interesting, chris, just this past thursday the black farmers got a $1.2 billion settlement, the indians a 2.2 settlement for race discrimination. we are not discussing all of the facts that they would not honor the settlement of 100 black farmers get no press and native americans get no press and we are still arguing about how fast or slow the white house reacted. also the testimony, this white family farmer, eloise and mr. i thought their stepping up to the plate was a great news story that none of us should

miss. >> chris: i agree with that and we reported that they had backed her. let me ask you a bigger question. do you think that that administration has been too timid in taking on conservatives? too concerned about being branded as liberal? >> well, they are attacked for being liberal in fact. i mean a healthcare bill to cover all americans and leave none behind is attacked as being a race appeal which is not true. but then it is portrayed in the media as true. in the move toward racial justice they found this is a base for attack. and that is a climate at some point in time, however, the administration must do something as basic as simply enforce the law. whether it is community investment, eeoc or contract implies, enforce the law and if it comes back take the hit.

robert kennedy had to take that hit. lyndon johnson had to take that hit. truman had to take that hit. you cannot get around enforcing racial justice and gender equality. >> chris: speaking of racial justice it seemed that the white house went to some lengths to keep the president out of another conversation about race. is that a mistake? >> well, they tried to avoid it but it is unavoidable. the issue of, you know, when i went to jail this year, along with sherrod, 50 years ago seeking access to public accommodation we were separated by race and we couldn't use the same hotel, motel, park, library, now we are not so much separated, now they have these kids and here we are today with a new conversation when georgia plays georgia tech, its uniform color versus skin color.

we have overcome that level of racial fear. on the other hand you look at incomegap or wealth gap and of blacks and in font mortality and unemployment and home foreclosures. the same day there was a summit with president obama and crowley the same day, lisa mad madigan from illinois filing lawsuits, blacks and browns, hear me now. >> chris: i'm running out of time and i want to ask you about two more questions, if i may, sir. the first is about this question of race because you were involved in an incident just recently, some say that you played the race card recently. it all came out when the owner of the cleveland cavaliers wrote an open letter after lebron james announced he was leaving the team in which he said this about james' leaving. he called the decision a shameful display of selfishness

and betrayal by one of our very own. and you said he speaks as an owner of lebron, not the owner of the cleveland cavaliers. the feelings of portrayial personify a slave master mentality and he sees lebron as a runaway slave. why make it about race? couldn't this just have been about the owner of a team and a fan who was terribly disappointed by a decision? >> well, he went beyond that. here is a guy who owns the fat head. he reduced it from 99 to the best of benedict arnold. here is a guy who bought casino licenses and he expected lebron to fill up the stadium and the casino. here is a guy getting investors from china to expand his empire. >> chris: don't you think he would have been just as upset if lebron james were a white star? >> i don't know. what i do know is that he said

lebron quit five times but quitting is very close to -- why would the guy without a contract be attacked in this way by the owner of a team? like his major source of revenue got away. so to me it looked like dred scott and i think gibbs was wrong and i think any other owner who does that to a player should face the consequences. i think it is really wrong. >> chris: and finally, less than a meft, reverend jackson. should charlie rangel make a deal to get democrats off the hook and avoid the spectacle of a public trial in the fall? >> it is a personal choice. if charlie feels that he is innocent, he feels he would vindicate himself and so he may want to go through the due process route or may make a political decision but those are his choice to make and i respect charlie rangel for what across his 30 yearsist 30

of public service. >> chris: thank you for coming in today. always a pleasure to talk with you, sir. coming up, the fallout from the shirley sherrod case from the white house, the media and the national conversation about race. our sunday regulars weigh in, and believe me, you won't want to miss it. we've got to capture. there my job is to hunt it down. i'm fred lemond, and i'm in charge of bp's efforts to remove oil from these waters. bp has taken full responsibility for the cleanup and that includes keeping you informed. every morning, over 50 spotter planes and helicopters take off and search for the oil. we use satellite images, infrared and thermal photography to map and target the oil. then, the boats go to work. almost 6,000 vessels. these are thousands of local shrimp and fishing boats organized into task forces and strike teams. plus, specialized skimmers from around the world. we've skimmed over 27 million gallons

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he jumped the gun partly

because we now live in this media culture where something goes up on youtube or a blog and everybody scrambles. >> chris: president obama blaming agriculture secretary and the media for the firing of shirley sherrod. it is time now for the sunday group, brit hume, fox news senior political analyst and contributors mara liasson of national public radio, bill kristol of the weekly standard and one williams -- juan williams also from national public radio. what do you make of the sherrod case and the argument this is one more example of a 24/7 media culture run amuck and that we are all guilty? >> if this wasn't so depressing this episode it would make a wonderful as far as. the misinformation that emma nateed from the event -- emnated from the event beginning with the portion of videotape that started it all, although it should be noted for the record that the brightbart

version of the video contained mention how she came to see things in a different light. part of the redemption story was there, it just was completely overlooked in the early going by everybody, principally the administration which reacted to this before it was reported outside of the blogosphere and the web and misinformation led to her firing. this are all kinds of myths about how that came about and you heard governor dean spouting one of the principal elements of that misinformation was that fox news had been deeply involved in causing this and fox news has you pointed out hadn't even aired the woman's name until after she was forced out. this hass been depressing. it is partly the 24/7 media cycle but it hadn't gotten cranked up until after she was forced out. >> well, this is done in part out of concern that they would be engulfed, the administration would be engulfed by a 24/7

media cycle and they were trying to do what they thought all smart communication shops do which is to not make this happen. >> they got engulfed all right. >> every entity here who did not do their homework and practice good journalism and report the entire videotape is guilt. including fox. the naacp who didn't look at it before they condemned her remarks and certainly the administration who fired someone before -- >> it is is an afterthought. they fired their own employee without doing due diligence. >> they bear the highest standard because they are the administration and they were her employers and there is no doubt as they have acknowledged and apologized profusely. >> chris: but they keep saying it is all part of this media culture. >> no doubt -- >> chris: they were elected to change the cycle. what was the change about?

>> they cannot change the cycle. >> chris: do you think maybe not preemptively firing people would be a step in the right direction? >> this was a sorry spectacle from a to z. i think the only good thing is maybe from now on organizations will not take things, take little clips from partisan websites and put them out as if they are the facts. >> i really disagree with the moral equivalence between the media and the one hand and the president of the united states. >> i don't think it as moral equivalent. they have a higher standard. >> i was in the regan administration 25 years ago, the media reported things falsely, there is nothing new. if you are cabinet secretary you have an obligation to make sure the charges are true. you can wait a day and gosh, it would be horrible if glenn beck attacked the obama administration for one show.

that wouldn't happen. it is really just pathetic in the matter of our political leaders' action. i like tom and respect him. a former two term governor of iowa and been in the political in iowa and he didn't go around firing people because there was one negative story some where in the des moines newspaper. the white house tuesday morning was patting itself on the back at senior staff morning. the deputy chief of staff was congratulating people hey, you got out ahead of the news cycle. that was pathetic. >> chris: there was senior white house staff, it has been reported that the white house denies that it happened. it the white house afraid of the conservative media? >> yeah, i mean the white house is afraid of a charge that has been building in conservative media that is a suggestion that somehow you have a black president and a black attorney general and there is now going to be reverse discrimination against white people in america and i don't know exactly where this is coming from, you know,

but it is out there. i think part of it is the argument over the new black panther party case where the bush administration filed a voter intimidation case and some felt that the obama administration has not aggressively pursued that case. it is now a matter of contention between the u.s. civil rights commission and then, of course, you have the argument over whether or not the bush administration politicized justice with the firing of the u.s. attorneys that past week, the obama administration made a decision not to go forward in terms of prosecuting anybody in that case. then you have immigration which is a big racial issue and racial hot button in this country right now. >> chris: that is one they pushed. >> both sides are playing that issue to stay their base as we approach the fall election. and then the naed acp and the tea party. the tea party holding up signs, aggressively condemning president obama without much sensitivity and at times crossing the line and then the

naacp calling them out and saying they have to renounce racist elements in their mix and then andrew brightbart saying here is evidence of the naacp to show that the naacp has racists in its ranks. what you have is everybody playing the race card for their own -- i mean including the agriculture department which has this huge suit against it by black farmers. everybody in here saying it is convenient to push the race button and have everybody else distracted from their own sins. >> you know what, i keep coming back to here is there is this -- with this president is i think that his political advisors and perhaps he himself have been deathly afraid of the idea that he is simply and principally a black president rather than a president who happens to be black and that all the historical achievement that that represents. and if the idea were to take hold that he and his justice department as juan was mentioning are carrying out policies and actions to pursue

a kind of racial or reason a racist agenda that this would be political death. so you have this hyper sensitivity to an official who made what appeared to be a proud statement of having conducted her business in a racial way, even though it was 24 years ago, we now know it was actually a moving story of her turning away from that kind of thing. and i sense that that is what is driving this here is a very profound sensitivity if he is pigeon holed in that way that he is marginalize and politically finished for good. >> real quick. >> i think it picks on a little person. she is someone they didn't know at the agriculture department. threw her under the bush. eric holder who called the nation of cowards, the attorney general of the united states. it is so irresponsible as a matter of running the government to ask someone to

resign based on one tape that television. shown on >> chris: when we come back, the debate over the recovery. now, some democrats are saying this is no time to raise taxes, even on the wealthy. can be unsettling. but what if there were a different story? of one financial company that grew stronger through the crisis. when some lost their way, this company led the way. by protecting clients and turning uncertainty into confidence. what if that story were true? it is. ♪ there's a moment where everything comes together. where there's magic. and you now understand what nature's been hiding. ♪ at dow we understand the difference

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million tons of radio active water over a remote island in the pacific. stay tuned for more from our panel and our power player of the week.

i believe that the high end tax cuts have not created jobs, they have increased the deficit and they should be repealed. >> raising any one's taxes at this moment in time in this weak economy doesn't make economic sense. >> chris: a new split among democrats about the wisdom of letting the bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire at a time when the economic recovery is still fragile. back with our group. not a stampede but we are hearing from democrats including three in the senate, maybe we shouldn't raise taxes

on the wealthy yet. keep the tax cuts for a couple of years until the economic recovery is stronger. what are the chances that the president and congressional leaders will now back off on their call to let the tax cuts expire, thereby raising taxes on the wealthy? >> i think the obamaed a administration was determined to let the high end tax cuts expire but keep the tax cuts for people making $250,000 or less. there is three democrats, conrad, nelson and evan bayh in the clip saying that is not a good idea. maybe over time, yes. these tax cuts are quite expensive. we just went through a big fight called the deficit versus spending and people who are concerned about the deficit won because look at how much that package of unemployment benefits had to be wittleed down to pass. all of a sudden republicans don't care so much about the deficit any more. they just care about tax cuts. the problem for the obama

administration is they are also a little bit pregnant on this because they want most of these tax cuts to continue, too, which is bad for the deficit. i think there has to be some kind of a deal. maybe that they continue temporarily, business tax breaks instead of the high end ones. this is a volatile issue for this election year. being accused of raising taxes is not where the obama administration is wants to be. >> raising taxes for the wealthy. >> wealthy but it is a big charge to be raising taxes in a recession and also adding to the deficit. >> chris: one of the other factors in the whole debate about deficits versus the recovery and keeping it going is fed chairman ben bernanke who this week said in the short-term we have to be more concerned about economic recovery and we can worry about the deficit once we get to the mid term. so he seems to think that the recovery is fragile enough you don't want to do anything to mess it up. >> so did the white house economists ironically if you

read between the lines. the white house released its deficit and economic projections friday and this shows the economy growing 4%. the federal office only shows it growing by 2%. somebody asked why is your number so much higher? she said, no, we are building into our projection the obama tax cut. we are enacting, we are not raising taxes on the huge majority of americans and that will help economic growth. kristina roamer understands the tax increases inhibit economic growth. she and her husband had a paper published, updated their old paper in the economic review of june 2010. i know you were reading that. >> chris: updated that. >> that is news. >> i wasn't reading the american economist but i look on a blog and linked to it and there it was. in june 2010 kristina and david roamer say further empirical

studies say that tax increases are highly con tractionary, the effects are specific and robust. specifically robust. the obama administration is going to be in a tough position to say keeping the middle class tax rates where they are now, that is important to the recovery but we can raise top tax rates and small business tax rates by a lot and that is not going to affect economic growth. that is a tough position to argue. >> chris: juan? >> i wish we had videotape of you talking with senato senatol and he became tongue tied and didn't know how to respond. it is a difficult issue to say you care so deeply about deficits which has been the republican mantra and then say let's extend tax cuts that are going to drive up over ten years $1.6 trillion, the size of the u.s. debt. that is just -- i mean it just doesn't make sense. to me, what you have got to do here is protect the economic recovery. now, you said that ben bernanke

said in the short-term we have to support that. former chair allen greenspan said the deficit and the size is a real threat to the economy and a bigger threat than even the short-term benefit that would come to the economy. >> greenspan saying not let any of the tax rates stay where they are. >> he is a deficit guy. >> he is letting the tax cuts expire. >> keeping the current tax rates for two years. continue to -- >> let's look at the record here. there have been two times in the past 25 or 30 years when the deficit began to grow. when we have made major progress against the deficit. once was in the middle of the clinton years when the economy was booming. now, it was a dot com bubble but the economy was roaring and we went all the way to surplus which was a remarkable thing

and then the economy tip inside recession and then the deficit started to grow again. in the middle of the bush presidency the economy boomed and the deficit despite the war spending which was extraordinary. the deficit came down i think for three consecutive years. we didn't get to surplus but came down remarkably during that three years. that was we now know the housing bubble and bubbles have been, by the way, for all the other problems wonderful for dealing with the deficit because they produce a gusher of tax receipts. the only times we really made progress against the deficit have been when the economy was just roaring. mind you during the clinton years it was second term clinton the spending restraints that were imposed by republicans and the president went along with helpd that. >> and tax hikes. >> he hiked taxes. >> he did in the beginning of the administration and the boom didn't come until later so it didn't keep it that from happening. what you need most of all is to emerge from this problem, this

recession in full and have a robust and growing economy. i don't think you are going to get there from here if these tax rates go up. >> but you know, the tax hikes expire. the tax cuts expire. why is that? push and the republicans passed them. because they are too expensive to sin. continue. that is why they sunset. if the republicans wanted them in their convictions they would have made them permanent but they didn't. >> what are key talking about in reality. tax rates going from 39.6% to 35%. >> they are at 35 and going to 39. >> in other words, they would be under the bush tax cuts they are 35. >> they. and so they would bump back up to 39. i mean that, you know, and this is for the very rich in the country. people who are benefiting even in the midst of it. people still under 250. couples under 250 and individuals under 200 wouldn't have it. >> juan -- when is the last time.

>> let me finish. president obama has already cut taxes as he points out for 95% of working people by cutting payroll taxes. >> when is the last time one of these poor people offered you a job? the people who are the job creators, the people who have money to invest, capital to put at risk, to builded enterprises and they hope make more money are people that have some money to begin with. >> and god bless them and that is important but you have to did -- >> and if youngsters u diminish the amount of money they have on hand by taxing it away and the incentive to make more because they know a larger portion is going to be taxed away, you are dampening the impulse to grow the economy which is hard -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> i appreciate it. consumers are the heart and soul of this economy. you have got to have people who are willing to go in and spend money in order that small business will be in a position then to do the hiring. but you can't have banks and

small business say we are sitting on our money because we are worried about this. that is ridiculous when they have the money. >> chris: thank you, panel. see you next week. check out the latest edition of panel plus where our group picks up on this discussion on our website, foxnewssunday.com. we will post the video before noon eastern time. up next, our power player of the week. to give our war fighters every advantage. ♪ [ man ] to deliver technologies that anticipate the future, today. ♪ and help protect america, everywhere. from the battle space to cyberspace. [ female announcer ] around the globe, the people of boeing are working together. to give our best, for america's best. that's why we're here. ♪ fifteen percent or more on car insurance? can fútbol announcer andrés cantor

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at ge capital, loaning money is the start of the relationship, not the end. i work with polaris every day. at ge capital, we succeed only when they do. whoo! awesome! yes! we've got to get you out of the office more often. ♪ my turn to drive. ♪ >> chris: he cooks for tv and movie stars as well as this town's most powerful politicians. but as we first told you last february, it is what he does for needy children that makes him our power player of the week. ♪ >> most people are hungry. there are no angry people, just hungry people. >> chris: the gospel according to art risen from florida farm boy to celebrity chef while giving back to inner city kids. >> people say art smith, how do

you meet all these people? >> i never use a resume. i just feed them. >> chris: the remarkable story begins on that farm where he spent his time in the kitchen, not in the fields. >> the majority of what i learned of life and about food came from my mother and grandmothers and i saw how they every day, would cook and use food as a way to bring the family together. >> chris: by age 23 he was cooking for the governor of florida. in 1997 he began eight years as personal chef for oprah winfrey. >> everybody loves food made with love and that is what art does. >> chris: who introduced him to the obamas. >> miss winfrey. >> chris: do you call her miss winfrey? >> i sure do. i'm southern! >> chris: in 2004, art started his biggest project. >> common threads that the primary foe discuss is to teach children about how to cook but not to be little chefs but to be little human beings.

>> chris: now, running in 33 locations in chicago, washington, miami and los angeles, it is an aftercool program for more than a thousand 8 to 12-year-olds. the focus is on nutrition, self-reliance and foreign cultures. >> there we have it. perfect. >> taking children from that risk situations and exposing them to something that not only can teach them how to take care of themselves but also give them a window to the world. >> chris: art's day job is his two restaurants. president obama took michelle to table 52 in chicago last valentine's day. he has opened art and soul here on capitol hill which is where the chef and i got down to business sampling the southern cooking. >> everybody thinks it is about macaroni and cheese but it is vegetables, too. porkan have fish and posh chops. >> chris: how are we going to do this? >> test everything.

first stop. >> chris: that is serious macaroni and cheese. >> did you think we would make unserious macaroni and cheese? and then the chicken and the beets. >> we could never serve this kind of food on a sunday talk show because everybody would get along and it would be boring. brings us back to art smith's world view. food is love. >> people don't spend enough time together eating. just feed people, they will come. and you know what, that have what we have done and we have done it very well. >> chris: for someone who loves food as much as art smith his greatest project may be himself. since last year the chef has lost 85-pounds through watching his diet and exercise. and that is it for today. have a great week. and we'll see you next "fox news sunday." captioned by closed captioning services, inc.